Speech at the Forum on Literature and Art and the Conference on Feature Film Production

(19 June 1961)

Zhou Enlai

Introduction

At this time, there is a sort of bad atmosphere, which is that the democratic work style is insufficient. We originally required to liberate thoughts, get rid of superstition, dare to think, dare to speak and dare to act. Now, there are a good many people who do not dare to think, do not dare to speak and do not dare to act. Thinking generally is still being thought, the main matter is not daring to speak and not daring to act, where we are short the two characters of “daring”. Why can matters be thus? Chairman Mao put forward daring to think, daring to speak and daring to act at the Nanning Conference in 1958, and furthermore put forward officially at the 2nd Plenum of the 8th Party Congress, that daring to think, daring to speak and daring to act must be integrated with a spirit of seeking truth, and must be established on the basis of scientific predictions. But in fact, this is not something that everyone can achieve. The fact that thoughts, words and acts are somewhat partial is hard to avoid, this is not something critical, as long as freedom of criticism is permitted, this may be corrected. How can only permitting one person to speak and not permitting everyone to speak, not become “a hall of one voice”? Where does the “hall of one voice” come from? It is related to leadership, therefore, we must create a sort of democratic atmosphere. I first and foremost state, everyone is permitted to consider, discuss, criticize, deny or acknowledge my speech of today. A “hall of one voice”, in one sentence means being correct one hundred per cent, this sort of reality does not exist under heaven. People not only must speak out their incorrect words when making mistakes, and even when they are correct, there may be some words worded not appropriately, or a bit extreme, this is why criticism must be permitted. One person must not write a certificate of guarantee over his own words. If I may offer the comrades writers a word of advice, you must also not attempt to finish in one go. Great politicians and artists are all extremely strict concerning the revision work of their own works. Chairman Mao often says that the works of Marx and Lenin have been meticulously revised. Chairman Mao himself is also like this, many of the things he wrote have been changed repeatedly. Therefore, we must create a sort of atmosphere in which everyone is permitted to discuss and deliberate the opinions that we express.

The speech that I gave in 1959 concerning the principle of literature and art work walking on two legs, looking from the level of today, is also not certainly completely correct, in it, there may also be places of excess or insufficiency. What makes me sad is that it cannot get reactions after it has been presented, it enters into “limbo”, this causes people to unavoidable have some emptions. This time, you are required to talk a bit, and I will talk a bit. There are impressions in the heart, and to speak them out would be fast. But it is impossible to explain everything correctly, some issues can be deliberated or criticized, and they are mainly to lead the comrades into joint discussion. If we want to create a democratic atmosphere, and we want to change the work style of literary and artistic circles, we must first and foremost change the work style of cadres; to change the work style of cadres, we must first and foremost change the work style of leading cadres; to change the work style of leading cadres, we must start the changes from the few of us. We often engage with the friends in literary and artistic circles, if it is not permitted to doubt or deliberate the opinions we express, what is there still to research or deliberate, then? Our speeches are also not officially approved by the Party. And it is also permitted to raise opinions even if they concern things that have already been researched and passed by the Party. It is permitted to discuss and it is permitted to raise opinions about the things that are officially passed by the Central Work Conference, and to revise them, why could my individual opinion not be discussed or revised? We must create an atmosphere, in which everyone stands on the socialist viewpoint to inquire into questions, in order to do literary and artistic work well, and implement literary and artistic policies well. Each has something to say in these areas, why could this not be discussed? You will have made notes of my speech of today and taken them back, I hope you will talk about it, and send opinions. But if the opinions you send are all of the sort of “complete agreement”, “complete support” “correct instructions”, I will not look at them. This is not to say you lie, but it is because reading this is senseless. If you have different readings, and have questions to put forward for deliberation, write them down and send them.

A democratic work style must start from ourselves, criticism must be permitted, the expression of different opinions must be permitted. For example, my speech of today, there are only two days of time to consider it, this is not mature. Naturally, in the speech, there are some passages concerning the Party’s principles and policies, and concerning the issue of class struggle, but not a little has been prepared on the basis of the issues that you have reflected. If I could compare this speech to a human body, it is only an embryo, and is even not a full-term embryo, whether or not it can grow into an adult, I do not yet know now. If you put forward opinions, my speech at a next occasion will be made a little better. We must study Chairman Mao. Chairman Mao always must repeatedly speak about one issue many times, we often hear him repeatedly talk about one issue, and every time, there are new developments. He hopes we put forward opinions, absorbs our opinions and conducts revision. This sort of work style of Chairman Mao, of persisting in the truth and revising mistakes merits our study. When we study Chairman Mao, we must study this sort of work style of his. We must permit other persons to raise different opinions in our work, before we are able to establish a good work style. In short, we must permit there being different opinions on the basis of different situations, only this is Socialist freedom, only this is being free from anxiety, and realizes that sort of political situation that Chairman Mao talked about that is both centralized and democratic, has both discipline and freedom, has both unified wills and individual freedom from anxiety, vivacity and vigour. I hope through this conference, we will be able to concentrate a sort of air like this, and achieve this sort of result.

Three years ago, we originally required the liberation of thoughts, daring to think, daring to speak and daring to act, but the result is that thoughts have been fettered instead. In fact, people also still think, it is just that they don’t dare to speak and don’t dare to act. People aren’t rocks, how can there be a reason for thinking? Now, we must make the people speak out and act out all matters their think about. A few years ago, there was a sort of method: when other people’s words were spoken, they would be given frames, their mistakes would be seized upon, their roots would be dug out , be given a hat to wear and bludgeoned. First and foremost is having a frame, people must be made  to act as they say, and should not do what they don’t agree with. Once there is a subjective frame, it can be used to seize on someone’s mistakes, all starts from someone’s subjectivism, one-sidedness and metaphysics, it does not undergo investigation, someone subjectively considers something to be “rightist”, and concludes that it is “rightist”. Believing that “Tachi and Her Fathers” is “sentimentalist”, first setting down this frame, is where the trouble starts, and where the bourgeois sentimentalism of the writer must be opposed. Thanks to the comrades in Shanghai, you have suggested us to watch “Tachi and Her Fathers”, I have watched it, I have read both the novel and watched the film, this is a good work. But there is a framing fixed within this, in the novel, it is written that the old Han man finds his daughter and wants his daughter back, some people would say this is a “theory of human nature”. Comrade Zhao Dan and Comrade Huang Zongying shed tears when watching the film, I also nearly cried when I watched the film yesterday, but I have not cried. Why have I not cried? Because the skill of the actors makes you want to cry but unable to cry, and restrict your emotions. For example, the daughter wants to leave the old Yi man, we are stirred and want to cry, but the person on the screen actually doesn’t turn her body, and uses her hands to cover their face, so as not to let the audience see she is crying. That ideological fetters have arrived at this sort of level, makes us want to cry, but in reality, she does not let use cry, but proletarian emotions are not like this! I have heard that the actor was on constant tenterhooks, only when some comrades said it was good, did she feel relieved. Actors do not dare to set their hands free in that place. This is not to criticize Comrade Wang Jiayi, but to say that there is a frame here, “Father and daughter coming together and crying is a theory of human nature”, and because of that, the actors do not let them cry when dealing with this. Everything is enmeshed with the “theory of human nature, this is not good. In fact, the problems concerning the theory of human nature have been resolved twenty years ago. Chairman Mao says in his “Talks at the Yan’an Conference on Literature and Art” that there is no abstract human nature, in a class society, there is only the human nature that carries a class nature. But now, there still are people who find frames there, and frame everything inside one frame, where what people say or do does not fit within there frame, they give people hats, “theory of human nature”, “the love of humankind”, “sentimentalism” and many others are put on people’s heads. First it is seizing on shortcomings, and once shortcomings are seized, hats are put on heads on the basis of ideology or politics, they are bludgeoned organizationally, and these matters all start from subjective frames, start from definitions, that sort of definition is mistaken, and does not at all suit Marxism-Leninism. There is also digging for roots. First, linking to history. Regardless of whatever someone said, it must be examined in connection with history, what caused someone to act like this? Second, there is linking with the household, and digging out class roots. Where we believe motivation and result are uniform, we cannot but ask whether effects can only be inferred from motivation. To get to the root of matters, it is permitted to link to history, but the most important is that we should look at performance today; linking to household and class background or social relationships is also permitted, but we should mainly look at the person. History and class backgrounds may be made into related research, because we come from the old society, the old society caused us to carry some old things on our bodies, there are problems, this must be acknowledged, but we cannot link them wantonly, and mainly should judge people on their conduct of the present, and their individual conduct. First, determining a frame, using the frame to cover something, and following on to seize on shortcomings, dig for roots, put on hats and bludgeon, is not good.

Marxism has frames. We do not generally oppose frames, what we have is a large frame. We want to transform the entire society, construct Socialism and Communism, this frame should be very large! We also want to transform nature, how large a frame is this as well! The proletarian worldview is the most scientific and most magnificent worldview, take all sorts of worldviews from the past and compare them, they are all paltry by far! Only we are able to transform the entire society and the entire world, and herald the future. What we have is the most magnificent frame. Changing this magnificent frame into metaphysical and subjective small frames is mistaken. We also do not generally oppose seizing on mistakes, we want to seize on large mistakes, and grasp that sort of large mistake of reactionary politics, and that sort of mistakes of “three thousand yards of white hair”. For example, in 1957, bourgeois rightists savagely attacked, opposed the Party and Socialism, “black clouds bore down on all cities, threatening to overwhelm them”, and consequently, these mistakes were seized upon for a counterattack. It is also not that roots must not be dug up, this has already been analysed above, there shall be related research concerning history and class background, but the most important shall still be to look at the individual and look at the present. putting on hats, if people truly are rightists, they must be given hats to wear, but they must not be given out disorderly. The problem of the present is that hats have been handed out disorderly, and that a mistake of one sentence, a mistake in one sort of thought or even all sorts of statements and thoughts that were permitted at first, permitting a hundred flowers to bloom and a hundred schools to contend, were seen as poisonous weeds and heresy, that is not correct. Bludgeoning must be handled even more cautiously. Even if someone is mistaken, as long as he is willing to change, he must be permitted to change, when he does not manage to change in a given time, it is still necessary to wait, he cannot wilfully be expelled from Party membership, that is an incautious way. We still must “first observe and then help”! therefore, we do not advocate that the proletariat does not need frames, does not seize on mistakes, does not link to class background or history, not to give hats that should be given out, or not to punish those that should be punished. This is not what I mean. What I am saying is that this sort of mistaken and inappropriate things have become a sort of atmosphere at the moment, and have become “five sons passing the imperial examination”, this sort of atmosphere is not good. Now, we must reverse this sort of atmosphere, but when reversing it, the issues of the kind of the large frame and the large shortcomings cannot be repudiated. For example, class background and history shall be explained, so that everyone knows. Everyone must help themselves correct mistakes, only relying on individuals to think about mistaken things will make them not easy to give up, we must rely on the assistance of the masses. Therefore, these large principles should still be persisted in. Only if these bad and faulty tendencies are eradicated, can the correct wind be established, and can a sort of political situation that is both centralized and democratic, has both discipline and freedom, has both unified wills and individual freedom from anxiety, vivacity and vigour be created. I hope that this conference will be able to achieve this sort of result, change begins first from us leaders, who advocate this sort of correct atmosphere.

The above are opening remarks, they are the introduction, next, I will talk about six issues, and if there is time, in the end, I will also speak a little about some opinions concerning drama.

I, The issue of material production and spiritual production

Some rules of material production are equally applicable to spiritual production. Doing matters in excess may also cause damage in spiritual production, and the damage may even be larger. I said once, in 1959, we cannot always urge writers, and let them hastily write drafts. Naturally, some drafts must be hastened, for example newspaper editorials, in order to suit the rapidly changing international struggle circumstances, these must be hastened, so as to coordinate with the struggle. But we also have a tradition, that if something is not written well, we would rather have it appear in newspapers a day later, so that it can be improved. Therefore, foreigners often say that we express opinions later. Even in the area of the international struggle, matters may be done like this, why could we not act like this in terms of domestic spiritual production? Making quota, determining plans, guaranteeing completion, urging people and urging them again, these are worrying matters for spiritual production. I have said, I have made a mistake in the area of literature and art work, which is that I encouraged the large-scale filming of artistic documentaries. Artistic documentaries may be produced, but encouraging them in excess will also not do. We put forward to produce eighty in 1958, the result was that next, 103 were made, among which there were a number made badly and roughly, which wasted labour and occupied material, naturally, a number of good ones were produced as well. In short, requiring too many, goes against the dialectical integration of more, faster, better and more frugally. More, faster, better and more frugally means we must compute the general ledger and count the large accounts, requests cannot come from every single person. For example, Comrade Zhang Shuihua, your habit when shooting films is to make them a little slower, a little slower shall be permitted, we must not require very fast production. Or another example is writing poetry, among our leaders, Comrade Chen Yi likes to write poems, and writes them very rapidly, he is a prolific writer and a quick wit. Chairman Mao is different, he must foster something until it is very mature before he writes it down, he writes very little, but it is bold and magnificent, full of poetic quality. Naturally, Comrade Chen Yi’s poems are also very poetic. We cannot require Chairman Mao to write one poem in one day, and we must also not intervene with Comrade Chen Yi, and let him write less. Spiritual production cannot be required to standardize. But when we add the entire country’s spiritual production together, our Socialist culture is still rich and varied. Chinese painting, such as the painting exhibition “A New Look of Mountains and Rivers” that display’s Jiangsu’s Chinese painters, is very rich. We do not approve of saying that only Jiangsu’s Chinese painting is good, even though I am from Jiangsu. We should say that there is good Chinese painting in all regions of the entire nation. Spiritual production cannot be limited in time or limited in quantity. We must make a combined calculation for the entire country, and must concentrate forces, in order to produce even better things. The issues in this area should be made clear. Overly high quota and overly strict requirements, may sometimes fetter the production of spiritual products instead.

Some comrades point out that the problem of restitution exists both in spiritual and material matters, I support this opinion. Naturally, how to restitute matters requires research by all departments. For example, someone’s opinion is correct, if you say he is wrong, and criticise him, that someone’s mood will be very anxious, should there not be some thorough discussion? Another example, the issue of contribution of manuscript fees, if someone originally has obtained manuscript fees according to the provided standards, but you however provide that he must contribute some tens of per cents, this provision has not only not undergone approval, but furthermore, even if it would have been approved, it would not necessarily have been appropriate. For example, in the countryside, some of the grain in the hands of peasants may be used for storage in communes and production teams, and a part of it may also be sold, but the income from sales should be divided among the peasants according to work points, this is their income from labour. Naturally, there must also be some differential treatment, if work time has been used in writing something, influencing the quality of work itself, there must be some difference. Income from writing after-hours cannot be taken over gratuitously. It is said that some people say, whose manuscript fees is returned to the public in the end cannot be made clear, and restitution is difficult. This sort of talk is the talk of leaders, and it is looking for excuses to no longer have to thing about restitution. In fact, there are numbers in people’s hearts. Therefore, restitution should still happen, how much should be restituted may be publicly discussed. Another example, where writers’ houses have been transferred, why should these not be restituted to the person in question?

Literature and art departments also have problems of adjustment, consolidation, substantiation and improvement. In the past, they made too much, which did not conform with the spirit of consolidation and improvement. Culture and education teams were enlarged, their undertaking expanded, and there were problems in the areas of education and culture, and the policy of adjustment, consolidation, substantiation and improvement should be implemented similarly. We require Central culture and education departments to come up with a plan, submit it to local comrades for discussion, and for restraint. It is said that some localities and some sides are unwilling to retreat. As I see it, we must still start from the real situation, we must differentiate circumstances, some are the masses’ hobbies and volunteer work, some are the requirements of leaders. If the masses, for their own hobby, are willing to preserve a traveling theatre troupe, and everyone takes a share in supporting a theatre troupe, that tours between communise for performances, this sort of theatre troupe may be maintained. We permit collective ownership, why should theatre troupes all have to be owned by the whole people? Naturally, collectively-owned theatre troupes should prevent the resurgence of old forces, and the head of the troupe and other directors should not be permitted to take high salaries. Theatre troupe work is spiritual labour, and it should be so that main actors and people with truly high artistic levels work more and gain more. We must permit them to cooperate with cooperative theatre troupes, and the local Party Committee and administrative culture department is to guide this. This is one variety, which is based on the masses needs and serves the masses. Another variety is that all Central ministries, district and county leading organs, absolutely want to have a theatrical group, to serve a small number of people, here, interference is necessary, and their preservation is not permitted. Maintaining this sort of theatre troupe is engaging in cadre privilege. Troupes are to mainly serve the masses, although they are also permitted to conduct these internal performances, but there should be a limit. Cultural departments shall, under the guidance of Party Committee Propaganda Departments, formulate a plan, in which the number of people removed from material production to engage in spiritual production cannot be to large. As for after-hours affairs, that are run by the masses themselves, these do not influence production and work, and should be permitted. Our dissemination of culture still mainly relies on after-hours activities for its realization.

In short, some shortcomings have arisen in our work over the last three years, adjustment, consolidation, substantiation and improvement are necessary, the area of spiritual production is no exception, and must be similarly planned.

II, The issue of class struggle and the united front

Let me explain the complications of class struggle in the stages of Socialist revolution and Socialist construction. The Party already put forward at the 2nd Plenum of the 7th Party Congress that a struggle between two roads exists in Socialist revolution and Socialist construction. After the Liberation, through the “three antis” and “five antis”, this point has been proven. In the period after collectivization, we entered Socialism with the sound of gongs and drums, our onset was fierce and broad, and it may be thought that our transformation of the old society achieved great results, but that class struggle has been somewhat overlooked in terms of extent. Chairman Mao foresaw this issue, and issued the speech “On the Ten Great Relationships” in 1956, in which he talked about issues such as revolution and counterrevolution, the united front, etc.; in 1957, he furthermore issued the speech “Concerning Correctly Dealing with the Issue of Contradictions Among the People”, which elaborated this even more clearly. Sure enough, as Chairman Mao expected, rightists attacked savagely, proving that in the stages of Socialist revolution and Socialist construction, the area of class struggle may have reduced in size, but sometimes class struggle can still be very fierce. Class enemies may attack savagely at times where we are in difficulties, display flaws and have weaknesses. But we cannot because of class struggle overlook the united front, or without having analysed the bourgeoisie, vacillate in our dealing with the issue of contradictions among the people, or be biased somewhat.

There are political and ideological class struggles, and there still is the aspect of the power of customs from the old society.

Matters falling under a political nature, are regarding Socialism with hostility, and wanting to seize the opportunity to restore the old order, we must firmly oppose this, as we did the savage rightist attack. Last year, in a few regions in the countryside, counterrevolutionaries usurped leading power, and schemed to restore the old order; or they waited for their opportunity to strike, sometimes hidden, sometimes openly, sometimes they conceal activities, and then savagely restored the old order to a certain stage. Naturally, this only happened in a small number of regions. Because of the consolidation of the people’s regime in the entire country, they were unable to provoke large matters. This sort of class struggle is a contradiction between the enemy and us, we must be on our guard, and will be taken in when we slacken vigilance. This sort of issue exists in any aspect in the entire country, but is extremely small in number. We must stand on the people’s viewpoint and be on guard at all times, especially at times where we have difficulties or flaws, we must pay even more attention.

Ideological struggle is a long-term task, concerning the issues of ideology and work style, literature and art workers engaged in spiritual production must pay special attention. Eliminating old influences and work styles is a long term matter. We come from an old society, have been educated in old schools, the youth of today may also be influenced by the remnants of old ideologies in the household or society, therefore old ideologies and old work styles exist to a greater or smaller extent in people’s brains. Ideology is the forerunner, but truly eliminating the remnants of old ideologies, is only possible after completely finishing a new basis. Ideological issues and issues of world views must transform slowly, this cannot be hurried, this is all the more so with people engaged in natural science work. Take doctors as an example, I have met doctors like this, who are first-rate in skill, and serve Socialism, but there is a God in their brains, but this does not impede them to serve Socialism. Old people in our homes also believe in ghosts and gods, and they still may be a Socialist citizen! This is something that can be permitted to exist, and there is no way to coerce matters. Some old people cannot change for the rest of their lives, and will take their superstitious ideologies into their coffin, but while they are still alive, they may still serve Socialism. Ideology influences their work style, because when believing in God, it is necessary to go to church, or to pray silently while eating, some comrades also can’t bear the sight of this, denounce them, and create unnecessary tensions and troubles in society. Naturally, being a teacher or a writer, using this to go and educate the youth or put it in a stage play influencing the youth, is not good. But requiring them to thoroughly reform is not easy. Taking ourselves as an example, do we understand dialectical materialism that well? Is there absolutely no old thing that remains in our thoughts? This is hard to say, and we must also incessantly transform. The flaws and mistakes that I talked about earlier, are they not all caused by idealism and metaphysics? But can you say that our Party is not a Marxist Party and that our cadres are not Marxists? People always have flaws. Our Party is a magnificent, glorious and correct Party, but from my individual position, I am still not a mature and complete Marxist. Communist Party members may still be like this, how can they blame common non-Party friends? When oneself is a bit more modest, and helps others, matters will be easier to handle. Ideological transformation is a long-term matter, how can being reborn from the old society into the new society result in a complete transformation all at once?

The force of habit refers the force of feudal and bourgeois habits brought from the old society, that have been made into habits since childhood, and where it is not believed that they are incorrect. For example, wherever our leading comrades go, the masses are blocked, to make way for us, if you want to treat people equally, this will not do, and some people absolutely want to treat you with privilege. I also no not oppose necessary vigilance, but originally we sat together, why must we be separated? I look upon this as being one sort of force of habit, which is feudal, and sometimes unconsciously comes out. The force of habit is manifold in China, for example coming together to beat people in the countryside, is a sort of force of habit. This has been brought from the old society, now, there still are people who use this sort of method to deal with the masses. In plays, there are still those who are hit with sticks. “Fifteen Strings of Cash is very good, and the bamboo stick beating has been put behind the scenes. Concerning counterrevolutionaries, Chairman Mao has consistently stressed his opposition to torture. Opposing the revolution requires that someone is educated, all the more is this so among the people! But the force of habit often is unconscious, and we still want to beat people. Recently, I came to know that many plays have been banned, this issue can also be seen according to the force of habit, for example “Qin Xianglian”, some people believe this can also not be performed, what kind of reasoning is that! It criticizes Chen Shimei’s killing his wife and his son, his acts are very vicious, why can it not be performed? What relationship does this have with remarriage after divorce? This is exactly the influence of feudal thinking. Many plays always condemn the woman in man-woman relationships, and pardon the man. I believe this is incorrect. At this tome, we have not yet dropped the social custom that the male sex should be at the centre! We must not believe that there are no feudal thoughts among cadres, is this not feudal thinking? Speaking about reason, everyone will agree that, as soon as concrete matters are encountered, the force of habit has come. We must not believe that our generation may eliminate it, by the 21st century, perhaps, new habits will have been created, but in this century, we must not look to completely eliminate the force of old habits. This involves the issue of class struggle. Sometimes, we say something inappropriate, or say things wrongly in jest, this is a frequent matter. If we take all these situations to be grave political problems and struggle against them, people will not be able to live. Therefore, we must differentiate what is a political problem, what is an ideological problem and what is the force of habit, we struggle against everything without distinguishing the nature of the problem. Some hatters have already become habits, and a long time will be necessary before this can be changed. As long as new atmospheres have not yet been established, the force of old habits cannot go away. In short, we must concretely analyse class struggle, and must not mux up vigilance against a counterrevolution with ideological transformation among the people. If not, we will not be able to form that sort of political situation talked about by Chairman Mao, which is both centralized and democratic, has both discipline and freedom, has both unified wills and individual freedom from anxiety, vivacity and vigour.

Ideological transformation is a long-term task. The transformation talked about here, starts from unity, and will achieve new unity on a new basis. We must not fear to hear this word, transformation. Transformation includes a transformation of non-Marxist ideologies and the force of habit. If a Communist Party member thinks that he is done transforming, and does not need further transformation, he is not a good Communist Party member. I often say that there is no end to transformation, it goes on until death, and at that time, it also cannot be said whether transformation has been sufficient, only that it is a bit better than now. Transformation is a good thing, it is not a bad thing, it is to facilitate unity, and to struggle with counterrevolutionaries. Apart from class enemies, the people in the entire country are to create a great unity. As for whether or not there are forces of idealism and old habits in thinking, that is a question among the people, these people are inside our unity. Socialist societies exist in the period of transition from capitalism to Communism, this is a correspondingly long period, some people, however, reckon that it only requires four years and eighty days. Counting from 1949, there are just thirteen years. As I see it, a few times thirteen years are also not enough, perhaps it will be even longer, it is not easy to “tell this fortune” now. The objective of ideological transformation is to make our undertaking develop even better, to do literary and artistic work even better, and to unite literary and artistic workers, it is not a matter of “five sons passing the imperial examination”, or to make everybody very nervous. Conducting this work requires a gentle breeze and soft rain. Chairman Mao says: all ideological transformation and study must be as a gentle breeze and soft rain, adopt the form of meetings of people with experience and wisdom for informal discussion. This conference will discuss many problems, from the leaders to literature and art troupes, and to the policy of “adjustment, consolidation, substantiation and improvement”. These problems are not matters that can be completely resolved in one conference, after everyone goes back, further information discussion must take place, we cannot be impatient, we cannot again have a new frame, we must work on the long-term, we must be patient, before we can be in a good mood and happy.

On the one hand, we must conduct class struggle, on the other hand, we must consolidate the united front. The unity and cooperation of the Party and the democratic parties and democratic persons is the united front. It is not only so during the period of democratic revolution, it is also so during the period of Socialist revolution and Socialist construction. Comrade Li Weihan has publishes an article concerning this aspect, and I will not say more about it here. For a while, it was like as if it was felt that it was permitted to no longer talk about those problems concerning intellectuals from 1956, this is not so, those principles still exist, it is just that because we were busy over the last three years, there has been some oversight in this area, and we have talked less about it. Now, after having undergone anti-rightism, and having gained the experiences of the three years of the Great Leap Forward, both sides understand each other better. The three years of the Great Leap Forward have successful experiences, and also have difficult experiences, we must become even more united and even more confident, the united front should be even more broadened, and even more deepened, and it should not be reduced or made fainter. This point must be affirmed. If we want to cause our economy and culture to develop even better, we must on the one hand raise vigilance concerning domestic and foreign class enemies both at home and abroad politically, and must even more broaden and strengthen internal unity on the other hand.

III, The issue of whom to serve

Whom to serve is a political norm, any literature and art has an issue of whom to serve. Chairman Mao put forward that literature and art serves workers, peasants and soldiers, this is exactly out political norm. Serving workers, peasants and soldiers, serving the labouring people, and serving the popular masses under the proletariat dictatorship regime, these are only the political norms for literature and art. Political norms are not equal to everything, there are also artistic norms, and there still is a question of how to serve. Service is using literature and art to serve, and must happen through the form of literature and art. The forms of literature and art are varied and diverse, and cannot be framed. Literature and art must serve workers, peasants and soldiers, and serve proletarian politics, this is affirmed, as for the form of expression, this can be varied. Literature and art forms at least include, as Comrade Zhou Yang said in his report, literature, drama, music, fine arts, dance film, quyi, photography and others, their divisions are endless, for example, there are many genres within quyi. Literature and art serve politics, and must pass through a form, only by thinking in terms of symbols can thoughts be expressed. Regardless of whether it is musical language, or pictorial language, they must all be expressed through forms and models, without forms, literature and art do not exist per se, nothing of itself will be left, what is there still to speak of to serve politics? Slogans and catchphrases are not literature and art. For example, my speech of today, can only be called informal discussion, it cannot be called art. Since matters are this, literature and art must serve the people well, and must undergo practice, and be tested among the masses. Whether your form can stand or not, whether the people love to see and hear it or not, is not something for which approval from leaders counts. Whether artworks are good or bad must be answered by the masses, and is not something to be answered by leaders; but at present, leaders’ decisions exceed approval by the masses. Naturally, if there are political mistakes or anti-Socialism, we must speak out, it cannot be allowed to spread freely, but these things, in the end, are few in number. I saw some material from Sichuan. A Vice-Minister in the Ministry of Culture went to Sichuan and said: Sichuan is backward. This offended the Sichuanese. At that time, a Comrade answered: whether it is backward or not must be answered and decided by the seven million people in Sichuan. As I see it, this Comrade is very brave, and answered well! If the people love to see or hear something, and you do not like it, where do you rank? Shanghaiers love dialect storytelling, Huai opera and Shaoxing opera, what would you as a Beijinger go and approve? Leaders may have fondnesses, some people like seeing a play, some people like looking at pictures, some people like antiques, what is the matter with this? If we look at a play and say it is good, that does not necessarily mean it is good, our words are unreliable, everyone has his own likes, how can they become norms? Art is approved by the people. As long as the people like something, it has value; if it is not against the Party or against Socialism, it is permitted to exist, and there is no authority to ban it. Artists must face the people, and should not only face leaders. Does this advocate opposing the leaders? It does not. Leaders have the power to raise opinions in politics, and must assume political command, but political command mainly is to see whether something is a fragrant flower or a poisonous weed, and whether or not it opposed the Party and opposes Socialism, political acuity must be put under this heading. As for the artistic side, we understand very little.

We understand very little, and our right to speak is very little, we must not interfere excessively. The present comrades are all leading persons, I hope you interfere a little less, this naturally does not mean you must not take up responsibility. First, you must take up responsibility; second, you must interfere a little less. Taking up responsibility main refers to politics, your must not let poisonous weeds alone, or leave revisionism alone. But you must absolutely distinguish them clearly, and must not say everything is revisionism. Some people ask me: are the educational function and the entertainment function of literature and art unified? It is a dialectical unification. The masses watching plays or watching films is for them to gain entertainment and relaxation from it, your typified imagery and performance has education residing within it, and residing within entertainment. Naturally, there must be diversification, we cannot always wage war. Comrade Zhu De said, we have waged a lifetime of war, I’d like to see some films not about war. If  we let the people see films about waging war every day, the people will not like to see them, and will want to see Hong Kong films, this only illustrates that the work of the Film Bureau has not been done well; conversely, if there would not be a single film about war, the youth would be let to lose their militancy, this is also not good. How many modern films there are, and how many historical films there are, must generally be in proportion. As for themes, a free choice may be completely permitted. In old times, there was no Socialism, but there were the fine traditions of the Chinese people, the people created many ideal persons for themselves, such as Wu Song, Mu Guiying, etc., there were also not a few myths, all of these may be written about. We must have a proportion, this sort of proportion must also be somewhat different in different regions and different genres. Some genres are only suitable to perform emotional dramas, and war dramas can only be performed occasionally, for example Shaoxing opera troupes are all female comrades, performing “Dream of the Red Chamber” is very comfortable, performing “Chasing Fish” is also possible, performing acrobatic fighting dramas such as “Sizhou Town” will be difficult. Shaoxing opera has been developed by the “Didu troupes”, and afterwards, some things from the Shaoxing troupes were absorbed. Originally, there were male performers or all performers were male, which afterwards changed into female performers, new, although it is permitted for men and women to share the stage, it is also permitted to only have female actors. Because of different genres, we must do what is suited to the time and the place, and when arranging theatre programmes, we must consider the needs of the masses. Another example, film, which films are suitable to be watched in the countryside or factories must be handled differently, but there should always be some enlivenment of life, on the one hand, they must extol the glory of work, on the other hand they must also have some emotional or light things. As for the youth, they must be told about the thick and thin of the revolution, and that Socialism is heard-earned, plays displaying the difficulties and hardships of the revolutionary struggle must be performed often, to ensure that they must not forget it. In creating themes, there must be an overall balance, the Ministry of culture must do more work in this area, but it may absolutely not resort to coercion and commands or excessively interfere. I have heard comrades from Shanghai say that there are some writers who are not at all familiar with the leading work of Party Committees, which insistently demand them to go and write about the leadership of Party Committees, the result is that they are told every day about how important the command of the Party Committee is, and they still cannot write it down, it would be better to let them write other things and give rein to their strong points. Originally, it was to be so that each displays what he excels in, letting a hundred flowers bloom, and the result has been that one bloom flowers alone, a political frame has been taken, and everyone has been fettered. Comrade Chen Yun’s opinion concerning quyi is reasonable. His health is very weak, he is very tired, and requires a different life environment to rest, he listens to dialect storytelling, so as to do even more work for the Party. Dialect storytelling also has an educational function, and is very characteristic artistically, a person can perform many roles, and perform in many areas. In the past, I did not understand dialect storytelling, and now I feel it is even better than northern drum ballads, naturally all has something to recommend it. But I still want to hear northern quyi, because listening to the Suzhou pronunciation in dialect storytelling is relatively strenuous, therefore, I am not as enthusiastic as Comrade Chen Yun. We cannot absolutely require Comrade Chen Yun and myself to be the same, we can also not say because of that that I do not praise dialect storytelling, each takes what he needs! When the masses watch plays or watch films, each takes what he needs! Another example, I like to read prose and short stories, I don’t have time to read novels. Sometimes, I’d like to watch a play or a film that does not cost mental effort, by way of relaxation, but this won’t work, I still must think, I still must raise opinions, in fact, this is superfluous, and in the future, I must be a bit liberated, anyhow, there are many experts! After we have seen a play, are we not affected? We are also affected. “Tachi and Her Fathers”, I both read the novel and watched the film, each has its merits. The novel is relatively rough, it displays the nature of the Yi people, but it is a bit rough. The processing of the film is better than the novel, but afterwards, I did not dare to cry when I should cry, I felt fettered, probably because of a fear of “sentimentalism”. Our proletariat has the nature of the proletariat, why are there misgivings? There is a sort of pressure. “A theory of human nature”, “the love of humankind”, “humanitarianism”, “utilitarianism”, have all been messed up. These questions have already been answered by Chairman Mao in his Yan’an talks on literature and art. We do not generally oppose utilitarianism, we stress the utilitarianism, human nature of the proletariat, friendly affection and humanitarianism. Our method at the moment, is not to look at problems front the standpoint of the proletariat and the viewpoint of class, but to use the standpoint of idealism to look at problems. If we replace literature and art with politics, there will be no more literature and art, what will there still be worth seeing!

In addition, when doing cultural work, the economic basis must be researched. It is as Comrade Zhou Yang says, ideology goes first, but a high wave of cultural construction must follow a high economic wave. The development of the cultural undertaking cannot be boundless. In the cultural undertaking, there are too many higher vocational schools, they exceed economic development levels, and this may influence the basis and production. To say this serves production may result in the opposite to the objective, and becomes production serving culture, having culture for culture’s sake, and in the end, this will exterminate culture. Dissemination and improvement, for dissemination, we must launch mass after-hours activities, and improve matters on this basis. Now, we have done things in excess, the cultural undertaking has been done in excess, teams are too large, and occupy productive forces, influencing production, therefore, the front must be shortened, and the principle of the four words of “adjustment, consolidation, substantiation and improvement” implemented, only then will it be possible to serve Socialist construction, serve workers, peasants and soldiers, and serve the politics of the proletariat even better.

IV, The issue of literary and artistic rules

Literature and art are the same as industrial and agricultural production, they have objective development rules. Naturally, literature and art are spiritual production, they are the products of brains, they bring more complexity and are harder to grasp. Comrade Zhou Yang says that the characteristics of literature and art are that they reflect life through thinking in images. Chairman Mao said, literary and artistic works reflect life and shall be higher, stronger, more concentrated, more model, and more ideal than normal real life, therefore, it must be more universal. For revolutionary literature and art, all sorts of characters should be created on the basis of real life, to help the masses promote historical progress, and realise the objective of serving politics. I believe at this time, the following problems still exist in this area, which require resolution:

1. The problem of quantity and quality. In recent years, literature and art works have been produced in great numbers of quantity, but quality is not high. Literature and art teams have been expanded, but levels are not high. The same play has been studied and performed everywhere, the path if very narrow. The same theme is written about everywhere, and this is mostly similar with small differences. Using the same language to extol the same thing reduces quality. Although, at present, the quantity of literature and art is still removed from universality, at present, the main matter is not continuing to develop quantity, but it is that we must improve quality. Improving quality is a painstaking work, and it cannot be required to take place to hastily. Successful works are not works that everyone can create, and also do not come by every day. Excellent writers and excellent works where not in great number in the feudal society and the capitalist society. Naturally, we must exceed them; but we can also not “have everyone write poems, and have everyone paint paintings”, or produce a Guo Moruo in every county. This sort of slogan is incorrect. Quantity and quality develop dialectically, quantity always exceeds quality, good works are always few in number. But now, there are too few things of high quality. Literature and art requires the dialectical integration of ideology and artistry, creating good works requires even more preparation. “Socialism Is Better” is a good song, but the lyrics are too simple. There was a song at the time of the revolution, which was called “Overthrow the Great Powers”, the masses loved to sing it. In total, it had only eight lines of text: “Overthrow the great powers, overthrow the great powers, get rid of warlords, get rid of warlords; the national revolution is successful, the national revolution is successful, let’s sing together, let’s sing together.” This is even more simple, it is equal to a slogan. But that was written in 1924. Now, after 37 years, still being this simple is not good. The lyricist of “Socialism is Better” doesn’t have to be nervous, I don’t blame writers here; this is because the requirements of the leadership were too hasty, and therefore it could only be hurriedly written and improvised. Now, “The Waters of Lake Hong, Waves Strike Waves” is even more welcomed by the masses, because it both has a revolutionary content, and is emotional, its quality is relatively good. This is the criticism of the masses and the choice of the masses. Now, writers should be permitted to take a bit more time to write, and should not be urged to hasten overmuch. Theatre troupes also must not perform that many times, so as to enable performers to strike a balance between work and rest.

2. The problem of raw materials and processing. The common real life must always undergo processing before it can become a work of art. After writers have grasped the raw material, it must undergo processing, before it can be written into a work. Now, this aspect of processing shall be emphasized more, and because of this, it must be given a bit more time. If this play “Female General Yang Men” can be processed by Comrade Mei Lanfang, it may perhaps become even better.

3. The problem of ideology and profession. Ideology is very important, it is guidance, and ideological study must be strengthened. You are “engineers of the soul”, ideology must always be a bit higher. If ideological levels are not raised, works cannot be written well. But apart from raising ideological levels, the profession must also be mastered, otherwise, how could ideology be expressed? Only understanding politics and not mastering the profession means that things that are written will inevitably be slogans, and cannot move people. Only understanding politics and not mastering a profession, means other work may be done, for example propaganda work, but someone like this cannot become an artist. Naturally, propaganda work also requires brightness and vivacity. The profession must be mastered, not having basic training will not do. As an artist, someone must have experience and talent, and must have very good self-cultivation, this includes training, otherwise, this person cannot become an artist, and cannot become a commentator. My speech of today can only be an informal discussion, and cannot be counted as a comment. Because of this, it is absolutely necessary to accumulate experience and ability, it is necessary to practice incessantly, and to be tested by the masses in practice. When our art troupes go abroad, the people are extremely envious of the State attention and fostering that our artists receive. Our country’s artists have a broad development space, this is the superiority of the Socialist system. We accept people’s praise, and want to improve even more, want to develop upwards even more, therefore, we must respect experience and ability, and must respect skill. Now, we do not dare to talk about experience and ability, we do not dare to talk about skill, as soon as some people talk about skill, it is being said to be bourgeois ideology, this is clearly mistaken.

Related to this, in red and expert, theory and history, culture and knowledge, we cannot only do one thing and neglect the other. These problems have already been talked about by Comrade Zhou Yang at the planning conference for the compilation of humanities textbooks in higher education institutes. Now, this slogan of “white roaders” is in fashion. This slogan has not been put forward by us.

Comrade Nie Rongzhen absolutely wanted me to talk again about this problem. What does “white” mean? As long as a person serves Socialism with single-minded devotion on Socialist soil, although he has studied little about politics, cannot be counted as “white”. Only raising a white flag and opposing Socialism is “white”. For example, there is a surgeon, who performs operations very well, and heals patients very well, it is only that he is not very progressive politically, isn’t saying he is a “white roader” because of this, absurd? Another example, there is someone who serves Socialism with single-minded devotion, but who understands a little less politically, but has developed a guided missile in two years, which is a great contribution to the country; another person, who talks politics every day, and has worked for five years without making a guided missile. Which person would you vote fore in support? I vote to support the first person. The second person may as well be requested to become a political in structure, he cannot work in the guided missile department, he can only “make trouble” in the guided missile department. Chairman Mao has said: we do not generally oppose utilitarianism, we must stress the utilitarianism of the proletariat. Among these two people, the first person  is beneficial to us, and is beneficial to the victory of Socialism in the entire world. Not stressing revolutionary utilitarianism, and prattling about politics is not good. Naturally, I approve of studying politics, but the profession must be mastered, the time necessary to gain professional mastery cannot be occupied.

4, The problem of criticism and discussion. Other persons must be permitted to criticize literary and artistic works, to have the freedom to publish works, the freedom of criticism is also necessary; similarly, to have the freedom to criticize, the freedom to discuss is also necessary. No matter which aspect cannot dominate literary circles. We advocate criticism, and also advocate letting a hundred schools contend and free discussion. As long as there is contention in the great frame of Socialism, you say good, I say bad, is all permitted. Merely permitting criticism and not permitting discussion may cause people to say being a critic is easy.

V, The issue of inheritance and creation

Chairman Mao says, we shall stress the present and slight the pas. We believe that a generation has surpassed a generation. The development of history is always that the present is better than the past, but the past always has some good things that merit being inherited. Therefore, Chairman Mao wants us to inherit excellent cultural heritage, and critically absorb all beneficial things it contains, “drop its dregs, absorb what is best”, ensure it is carried forward, that one generation surpasses a generation, and carry it forward even more when we have reached a Communist society.

In Sino-foreign relations, we are Chinese, and should always give first place to our own things, but we can also not be anti-foreign and take a closed0door line, if we would do that, it would be the doctrine of going “back to the ancients”. Good foreign things must also be absorbed, and they must be made to dissolve in the culture of our nation. Our nation has always been good at absorbing excellent culture from other nations. We have absorbed Indian culture and Korean, Vietnamese, Mongolian and Japanese culture, we have also absorbed Western European culture. But if we want to “give first place to ourselves”, we must first and foremost concern ourselves with the tings of our nation. Studying foreign things must be to dissolve them, not to harden them. “The Small Swords Society” is a good play, when it was performed in Shanghai, the “bow dance” it contains did not have the sort of ballet movements of a female standing on top of the body of a man, these were added when it was performed in Beijing. In fact, during the era of the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom, how could there have been such a movement? It does not conform to the historical background of the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom. “Lotus Lantern” is also like this. How can ancient Chinese myths be performed like that? Perhaps, they have found out some things through textual research as a basis. Some instrumental music is also like this, and always must have some Western tones, this does not sound harmonic. In this area, I may be a little conservative. I advocate that we should first be concerned about the things of this nation, and when absorbing foreign things, dissolve them, we must make them fuse together with our nation’s culture unconsciously. This sort of fusion is a chemical combination, it is not a physical blending, and it does not mean welding Chinese things and foreign things together.

Regardless of whether it is studying ancient things or studying foreign things, all of this must be for the sake of the creation of today, and they must always be dissolved in our creation. Literature and art must have a spirit of original creation. Perhaps letting a workman tread on the legs of a man the “bow dance” in “The Small Swords Society”, is a sort of creation, this can be disputed. I believe that, when attracting and dissolving ancient or foreign things into creation, attention should be paid to the background of the times. When writing about ancient themes, it is impossible for women to stand on the body of men, when writing about modern life matters are a bit different. It is said that the Anhui “Flower Drum Lantern” is a woman standing on the shoulders of a man. But I remember, when I was young, I saw the masses dance this dance, and they were men dressed as women, in the past, women were basically not permitted to stand on the shoulders of men. Naturally, you may contradict me. When I talk about this, a part of it is in order to prepare to give rise to discussion.

VI, The issue of leadership

 

Over the last three years, we have obtained great achievements. This is the main thing. Flaws and mistakes are only a part. How can we correct these flaws and mistakes? The central question lies in leadership, lies in education, lies in going deeply into the masses, to summarize everything in one sentence, we must practice, investigate and research. The work methodology of Chairman Mao is to investigate and to research. Those conducting investigation and research are leaders, leaders must have a spirit of self-criticism, and are not to criticize downwards at all levels.

Recently, I heard something that Comrade Zhou Yang said that was pleasing to the ear. The said, the united front work must not only be done by the United Front Department, it should also be done by the Propaganda Department. This is very true. Originally, the Propaganda Department should solicit widely, and its doors were open widely, but now, persons from outside the Party do not go into the Central Propaganda Department, it can be seen that the doors are not that wide open. United front work is not only work of the United Front Department it is also the work of the entire Party, not only the Ministry of Culture and the Central Propaganda Department must do it, the Organization Department must also do it, many departments must do it. Every year, Chairman Mao will find Zhang Xinglao to talk about education work. I will also do work with Pu Yi. Since he has been released, we must always let him do some work, and give rein to his function. Transforming the last Emperor, is the superiority of the Socialist system! Otherwise, why would we have released him?

The correction of flaws and mistakes must start with leaders, first and foremost, leaders must self-criticize, and must take up a but more responsibility, problems always are related to higher levels. I hope that when you go back, you will also do this. Literary and art troupe leaders must also self-criticize. In this way, it will be possible to remove burdens, only if the frames are large, and there are no small ones, will it no longer be possible to wantonly seize on shortcomings, for roots to be wantonly dug out, for hats to be wantonly put on hats, and to wantonly be bludgeoned. It will be possible to ensure that the broad literature and art workers have peace of mind, are daring and energetic, which makes Socialist literature and art flourish even more.

Only having self-criticism will still not do, it is also necessary to go deeply into the masses. Only by going deeply into the masses, will it be possible whether or not one’s own opinions are correct or not. What to do? We must implement investigation and research. I still want to say something else, we must conduct self-criticism, but you can also not block information. You cannot believe this is my work, you shouldn’t bother – “How can one let another sleep alongside one’s bed?” It will be impossible to cooperate! Any problem made known to the public has benefits. In this way, it will be possible to gain everyone’s help, what is the problem with that? Naturally, investigation and research cannot cause a disaster, there should be preparation in advance, outlines should be written well; you must also bring food yourself, pay attention to economize. Investigation and research must seek truth from facts, and cannot be done wantonly. The achievements of other people should be affirmed. Appropriate estimations should be made of problems. The situations of all regions and all departments may be somewhat different, in some places, the entire leadership is mistaken, in some places, there will be a few that are wrong, in some places, it is very good, truth must be sought from facts, and matters must be dealt with differently.

Why is all of this then? It is for the sake of educating cadres. Chairman Mao said, we have been busy constructing over the past eleven years, we have not paid sufficient attention to educating cadres. That I say this much today, is also for the purpose of explaining these issues clearly. We must create a sort of atmosphere to ensure that everyone dares to speak. As long as it is beneficial to Socialism, even though thoughts are not identical, matters must be spoken out. Say all you know, speak freely; the speaker is not to be blamed, the listener should be warned; if you have mistakes, correct them, if you don’t, make greater efforts. Only in this way, may our cadres gain education, may healthy atmosphere may be created, and will Socialist literature and art see even better development, and may the universe of activities become extremely vast.

VII, The issue of drama

Finally, I’d also like to talk a little about drama.

There was progress in the theatre in recent years, but it is weak in comparison to other areas. What is the reason for this? It is because basic rules are not acknowledged, basic training is not conducted, as if performing plays is very easy, and it is fine as long as you can talk. Drama is a sort of comprehensive art, it includes a script, performance, settings, lighting, props, etc. But among these, the most important is the artistry of language, drama must move people through language. Comrades in dramatic circles require me to persuade Chairman Mao, and request Chairman Mao to watch drama. I say, when you perform drama in a way that does not resemble the speech of normal people, Chairman Mao will come and watch it.

Drama actors must not only be able to talk, but they must also be able to sing and act, because of this, the content of basic training is substantial. But now, basic training is not stressed very much, and the basic rules of dramatic art are overlooked. Dramatic troupes’ performers have a weighty task, they perform about 365 times per year, which makes everyone very tired, and there is no time to study the art, causing drama to be unable to be accepted by people. Performing drama requires different accomplishments, it requires some skill in music, chess, calligraphy and painting, and it is necessary to become a versatile person. Performing “Thunderstorm”, if one is not well acquainted with life in the feudal society, this is acted out as a household in the capitalist society, which does not resemble it at all.

Not grasping rules in any art, not conducting basic training, not grasping skill, will not do. As I see it, art should be practiced diligently, although this is brought up about the theatre, it should be applied in all art departments. Basic training must be conducted, and this requires time. The Ministry of Culture shall have a plan in this regard, and decide upon an appropriate proportion.

Since the Liberation, we have fostered many talents, but from the point of view of development, it is still insufficient. Yang Qiuling has been named “Little Mei Lanfang” in Hong Kong, but in fact, she is still very far removed from Mei Lanfang. If we do not give her time to strengthen training, she will fall down in a few years. When we foster talent, we cannot let someone rise up and someone fall down. When the State fosters talents, it is also necessary to talk about “costs”, naturally this is not to say we must make an economic calculation, but that we must pay attention to this issue.

We must grasp basic rules to strengthen basic training. This is the first point.

Second, performing stage plays must be in a way of having no-one in the eyes and having someone in the hart. There must be both no-one and someone. When actors on the stage see the hundreds or thousands of pairs of eyes at the bottom of the stage, they will have some fear and trepidation, and will naturally not play the play well. Because of this, they must have “no-one in the eyes”. Now, the audience seats in theatres are dark, this is so as not to let the actors see the audience. But this often also engenders another sort of bias: there is also no longer an audience in the heart of actors. If actors speak on the stage with their backs to the audience, we will not hear anything with our ears upright. They have basically forgotten that their speech is for the audience to hear, and the play is for the audience to see. Therefore, actors must have someone in their hearts.

Third, the stage must both be disdained and given attention. What I call disdain, means we must dare to play all roles, play both good people and bad people. People of older age playing children is also permitted. In “In the Name of the Revolution”, the female comrades playing the two children Wa Xia and Bie Jia are of age, and they play them very well. But only disdain will not do, there must also be attention. Even though the stage is small, at the bottom of it, there are still hundreds and thousands of people watching you, and the masses will make out any slight oversight. Therefore, strategic distain and tactical importance must be unified, in the way Chairman Mao said.

Fourth, performers themselves must ensure they are lifelike when objective, and earnest when subjective. Completely changing into a role, in the way that Stanislavsky said, is impossible. It is only possible to achieve likeness to life. But subjective matters must be performed earnestly, when playing Wu Song, it must resemble Wu Sung, playing Cao Cao must resemble Cao Cao. It should be both alike and not alike, and the dialectics of both unified.

In short, all sorts of objects have their objective rules, art is the same. We must earnestly research these and explore these, many experiences must be earnestly summarized. I hope that after this conference, everyone will research these rules, but we must also not set up a lot of frames.

These things that I have said today are not necessarily correct, I just set up a target to let everyone take aim, I set up a live target, to let everyone come and attack.

在文艺工作座谈会和故事片创作会议上的讲话
(一九六一年六月十九日)
引 言

现在有一种不好的风气,就是民主作风不够。我们本来要求解放思想,破除迷信,敢想敢说敢做。现在却有好多人不敢想、不敢说、不敢做。想,总还是想的,主要是不敢说不敢做,少了两个“敢”字。为什么会这样呢?毛主席一九五八年在南宁会议上就提出敢想敢说敢做,八大二次会议更正式提出,敢想敢说敢做要同求实精神结合,建立在科学预见之上。但是,事实上不是人人都能做到的。想得、说得、做得偏了一些是难免的,这并不要紧,只要允许批评自由,就可以得到纠正。只许一人言,不许众人言,岂不成了“一言堂”么?“一言堂”从何而来?是和领导有关的,所以,我们要造成一种民主风气。我首先声明,今天我的讲话允许大家思考、讨论、批判、否定、肯定。“一言堂”,说出一句话来就是百分之百正确,天下没有这种事情。人们不仅在犯错误的时候要讲出不正确的话,即使在正确的时候也会有些话讲得不恰当,过火一些,这就要允许批评。一个人不要给自己打保票。奉劝作家同志,你们也不要企图一挥而就。伟大的政治家、艺术家对自己作品的修改工作都是非常严肃的。毛主席经常说,马克思、列宁的著作,都是精心修改的。毛主席自己也是这样,他写的东西很多是几易其稿的。所以,我们要造成一种风气,我们所发表的意见,都允许大家讨论、商榷。

我在一九五九年关于文艺工作两条腿走路方针的谈话〔248〕,从今天水平来看,也不一定都是对的,里面也会有过头或不足的地方。使我难过的是,讲了以后得不到反应,打入“冷宫”,这就叫人不免有点情绪了。这次你们要求谈一次,我就谈一谈。心有所感,言之为快。但不可能什么都讲对了,有些问题是可以商榷、批判的,主要是引起同志们的共同讨论。我们要造成民主风气,要改变文艺界的作风,首先要改变干部的作风;改变干部的作风首先要改变领导干部的作风;改变领导干部的作风首先从我们几个人改起。我们常常同文艺界朋友接触,如果我们发表的意见不允许怀疑、商量,那还有什么研究、商讨呢?我们的讲话又不是党正式批准的。即使是党已经研究通过的东西,也允许提意见。中央工作会议正式通过的东西都允许讨论,允许提意见,加以修改,为什么我个人的意见就不能讨论修改呢?我们要造成风气,大家都是站在社会主义立场上探讨问题,为了把文艺工作搞好,把文艺政策执行好。在这些方面各有所见,为什么不能讨论呢?我今天的讲话,你们做了记录带回去,希望你们谈谈,把意见寄来。但是如果你们寄来的意见都是“完全同意”、“完全拥护”、“指示正确”之类,我就不看。这并不是说你们讲假话,而是因为看了没意思。如果你们有不同的见解,有提出商量的问题,就写信寄来。

民主作风必须从我们这些人做起,要允许批评,允许发表不同的意见。象我今天的讲话,只有两天时间考虑,是不成熟的。当然,讲话里有些是关于党的方针政策、关于阶级斗争的问题,但不少是根据你们所反映的问题做准备的。如果把这次讲话比作人形,那就只是一个胎儿,甚至是不足月的胎儿,能不能长大成人,现在还不知道。你们提出意见来,就可以使我在下一个场合讲得好一些。我们要学习毛主席。毛主席对每一个问题总要反复讲多次,我们常常听他反复讲一个问题,而每次都有新的发展。他希望我们提出意见,吸收我们的意见进行修改。毛主席这种坚持真理、修正错误的作风是很值得我们学习的。我们学习毛主席,就要学习他的这种作风。在我们的工作中要允许别人提出不同意见,才能树立好风气。总之,要根据不同的情况,允许有不同的意见,这才是社会主义的自由,才有心情舒畅,实现毛主席所说的又有集中又有民主,又有纪律又有自由,又有统一意志、又有个人心情舒畅、生动活泼,那样一种政治局面。我希望经过这次会议能够造成这样一种空气,收到这样一种效果。

三年来,我们本来要求解放思想,敢想敢说敢做,结果反而束缚思想。其实人家也还在想,只是不敢说不敢做。人又不是石头,哪有不思想的道理。现在我们要使人们把所想的都说出来做出来。几年来有一种做法:别人的话说出来,就给套框子、抓辫子、挖根子、戴帽子、打棍子。首先是有个框子,非要人家这样说这样做不可,不合的就不行。有了一个主观的框子就据以去抓辫子,一切从他的主观主义、片面性、形而上学出发,也不经过调查,他主观上以为“右倾”,就断定是“右倾”。对《达吉和她的父亲》,认为是“温情主义”,先立下这个框子,问题就来了,就要反对作者的小资产阶级温情主义。感谢上海的同志,你们建议我看《达吉和她的父亲》,我看了,小说和电影都看了,这是一个好作品。可是有一个框子定在那里,小说上写到汉族老人找到女儿要回女儿,有人便说这是“人性论”。赵丹同志和黄宗英同志看电影时流了泪,我昨天看电影也几乎流泪,但没有流下来。为什么没有流下来呢?因为导演的手法使你想哭而哭不出来,把你的感情限制住了。例如女儿要离开彝族老汉时,我们激动得要哭,而银幕上的人却别转身子,用手蒙住脸,不让观众看到她在流泪。思想上的束缚到了这种程度,我们要哭了,他却不让我们哭出来,无产阶级感情也不是这样的嘛!听说导演提心吊胆,直到有的同志说了好,他才放下心来。导演在那个地方不敢放开手。这不是批评王家乙同志,而是说这里有框子,“父女相会哭出来就是人性论”,于是导演的处理就不敢让他们哭。一切都套上“人性论”,不好。其实关于人性论的问题早在二十年前就解决了。毛主席《在延安文艺座谈会上的讲话》里就说,没有抽象的人性,在阶级社会里只有带着阶级性的人性。可是现在还有人在那里定框子,一个框子把什么都框住了,人家所说所做不合他的框子,就给戴帽子,“人性论”、“人类之爱”、“温情主义”等等都戴上去了。先是抓辫子,抓住辫子就从思想上政治上给戴帽子,从组织上打棍子,而这些都是从主观的框子出发的,是从定义出发的,那种定义又是错误的,并不合于马克思列宁主义。还有挖根子。一是联系历史。不论讲了几句什么话,都要联系历史检查,这叫人怎样办呢?二是联系家庭,挖出身的根子。我们认为动机与效果是统一的,不能不问效果而只从动机上去推测。追根子,联系历史是可以的,但主要应该看今天的表现;联系家庭出身、社会关系也是可以的,但主要应该看本人。历史和出身可以作连带的研究,因为我们从旧社会来,旧社会使我们身上带有旧的东西,有毛病,这必须承认,但不能随便联系,主要应根据今天的表现、本人的表现去判断。先定一个框子,拿框子去套,接着是抓辫子、挖根子、戴帽子、打棍子,那就不好了。

马克思主义是有框子的。我们并不一般地反对框子,我们有的是大框子。我们要改造整个社会,建设社会主义、共产主义,这个框子该有多大!我们还要改造自然,这又是多么大的框子!无产阶级世界观是最科学、最伟大的世界观,拿过去的种种世界观同它比较,都渺小得很。只有我们才能改造整个社会、整个世界,揭示未来。我们有的是最伟大的框子。把这个伟大的框子改变成为形而上学、主观主义的小框子,是错误的。我们也不一般地反对抓辫子,我们要抓大辫子,抓那种政治上反动的大辫子,那种“白发三千丈”的辫子。例如一九五七年对于资产阶级右派,他们猖狂进攻,反党反社会主义,“黑云压城城欲摧”,于是抓住辫子予以反击〔249〕。对于根子也不是不要研究,上面已经分析过,应当对历史和出身作连带的研究,但主要还是看本人、看今天。戴帽子,如果确是右派,就要戴帽子,只是不可乱戴。现在的问题正是乱戴帽子,把一句话的错误、一种想法的错误,甚至把那种本来是允许的、可以百花齐放、百家争鸣的各种说法想法,也都看成毒草、邪道,那就不对了。打棍子就更加要慎重。即使他错了,只要他愿意改也还要允许他改,一时改不过来的还要等待,不能随便开除党籍,那是不慎重的做法。我们还是要“一看二帮”嘛!所以,我不是主张无产阶级可以不要框子,不抓辫子,不联系出身、历史,应该戴的帽子也不戴,应该执行处分的也不处分。我不是这个意思。我是说那种错误的、不适当的东西在现在成为一种风气,一来就“五子登科”〔250〕,这种风气不好。现在要把这种风气反过来,但反过来并不能推翻那些大框子、大辫子之类的问题。比如出身、历史,就应当交代,使大家知道。大家帮助自己改正错误,错误的东西光靠个人在那里想,是不容易改掉的,要靠众人帮助。所以,那些大的原则还是应该坚持的。只有把那种坏的、不好的偏向去掉,正风才能建立起来,才能造成又有集中又有民主,又有纪律又有自由,又有统一意志、又有个人心情舒畅、生动活泼,那样一种政治局面。我希望这次会议能够收到这样的效果,首先从我们领导者改起,提倡这种正确的风气。

以上是开场白,是引言,下面讲六个问题,如果时间来得及,最后还讲一讲关于话剧的一些意见。

一 物质生产与精神生产问题

物质生产的某些规律,同样适用于精神生产。搞得过了头,精神生产也会受到损害,甚至损害更大。一九五九年我曾讲过,不能老去催作家,叫他赶写稿子。当然,有些稿子也要赶,例如报纸的社论,为了适应瞬息万变的国际斗争形势,必须赶写,以便配合斗争。但是我们也有一个传统,如果写得不好,宁肯晚一天见报,也要把它改好。所以外国人常说我们发表意见晚。连国际斗争方面都可以这样做,国内的精神生产为什么不能这样做呢?搞指标、订计划、保证完成、一催再催,这对于精神生产者是苦恼的事。我说过,在文艺工作方面我有过一个错误,就是提倡大拍艺术性纪录片。艺术性纪录片是可以拍的,但提倡太过也不行。我们提出一九五八年拍八十部,结果下面就搞出了一百零三部,其中就有粗制滥造、浪费劳动力、占用材料的,当然也有拍得好的。总之,要求得过多,就违背了多快好省的辩证结合。多快好省,要算总帐,算大帐,不能从每个人来提要求。比如张水华同志,你拍影片习惯于慢一点搞,应当允许慢一点,不必要求很快拍出来。又如做诗,我们的领导人中,陈毅〔213〕同志喜欢写诗,写得很快,是多产作家,是捷才。毛主席则不同,他要孕育得很成熟才写出来,写得较少,而气魄雄伟、诗意盎然。当然,陈毅同志的诗也很有诗意。我们不能要求毛主席一天写一首诗,也不必干涉陈毅同志,叫他少写。精神生产是不能划一化地要求的。但是把全国的精神生产加在一起,我们的社会主义文化仍是丰富多采的。国画,象展出的江苏国画家《山河新貌》画展,就是很丰富的。我不赞成说只有江苏的国画好,虽然我是江苏人。应该说全国各地都有很好的国画。精神生产是不能限时间限数量的。要从全国作综合的计算,而且要集中力量,以求搞出更好的东西来。这方面的问题应该讲清楚。过高的指标,过严的要求,有时反而束缚了精神产品的生产。

有的同志提出,在精神上、物质上都有退赔问题,我支持这个意见。当然,怎么退赔还有待各部门的研究。例如,人家的意见是对的,你说他错了,批判了他,使人家的心情很不舒畅,难道不应该检讨一下吗?又如献稿费问题,人家本来是按照规定的标准领的稿费,但你却规定要献出百分之几十,这个规定又没有经过批准,而且,即使批准了,也不一定就合适。比如农村,农民手里的粮食,可以提出若干作为公社、大队的储备粮,也可以出售一部分,但出售的收入应该按工分分给农民,这是他的劳动所得。当然,也要有不同对待,如果是占用工作时间,影响本身工作的质量而写出的,就要有所不同。业余时间写作所得,就不能无偿占有。据说有人说,究竟谁的稿费归了公已经查不清了,不好退赔。这种话是领导者的话,是找出借口来不想退赔。实际上人家心里是有数的。所以还是应当退赔,退赔多少则可以公议。又如平调了作家的房子,为什么不应该退还给本人住呢?

文艺部门也有个调整、巩固、充实、提高的问题。过去搞得多了,不合乎巩固、提高的精神。文教队伍搞大了,事业搞多了,包括教育、文化等方面的问题,就应该同样执行调整、巩固、充实、提高的方针。我们要求中央文教部门搞一个规划,提请地方同志们讨论,加以约束。据说,有些地方、有些方面不愿意退下来。我看还是要从实际情形出发,要区别情况,有的是群众的爱好和自愿,有的是领导的要求。群众自己爱好,愿意保留一个流动剧团,大家出股子养活一个剧团,在社队之间巡回演出,这样的剧团就可以保留下来。我们允许集体所有制,为什么剧团都要全民所有呢?当然,集体所有制的剧团,应该防止旧势力复活,不能让班主、把头拿高薪。剧团工作是精神劳动,应该是主要演员、艺术水平真正高的人多劳多得。要允许他们搞合作社性质的剧团,而由地方党委和文化行政部门加以指导。这是一种,是根据群众的需要、为群众服务的。另外有一种,中央各部、地县领导机关,一定要搞一个戏班子,为少数人服务,这就要干涉,不允许保留。保留这种剧团是搞干部特殊化。剧团主要是为群众服务的,虽然也可以作些内部演出,但是应当有个界限。文化部门应在党委宣传部门指导之下订一个规划,脱离物质生产专搞精神生产的人不能太多。至于业余的,群众自己办,又不影响生产和工作,应该允许办。我们普及文化,主要还是靠业余活动来实现。

总之,三年来的工作中出了一些毛病,需要调整、巩固、充实、提高,精神生产方面也不例外,同样需要规划一下。

二 阶级斗争与统一战线问题

说明一下阶级斗争在社会主义革命和社会主义建设阶段的曲折。党在七届二中全会〔3〕时就指出,社会主义革命和社会主义建设中存在着两条道路的斗争。解放以后,经过“三反”〔77〕“五反”〔74〕,证明了这一点。合作化后一个时期,敲锣打鼓进入社会主义,来势很猛、很广,可能认为我们改造旧社会所收到的成效很大,对阶级斗争在程度上有所忽视。毛主席预见到这个问题,一九五六年发表了《论十大关系》的讲话,其中就讲到革命与反革命、统一战线等问题;一九五七年又发表了《关于正确处理人民内部矛盾的问题》的讲话,阐述更清楚了。果然,不出毛主席所料,右派猖狂进攻,证明在社会主义革命和社会主义建设阶段,阶级斗争的面也许缩小了,但有时斗争还会很尖锐。阶级敌人在我们有困难、有缺点、有弱点时,就会猖狂进攻。但我们不能因为有阶级斗争就忽略统一战线,对资产阶级没有分析,在处理人民内部矛盾问题上有所动摇,或有所偏颇。

阶级斗争有政治上的和思想上的,还有旧社会的习惯势力方面的。

属于政治性质的,敌视社会主义、要乘机复辟的,就要坚决反对,如右派猖狂进攻。去年农村中个别地区反革命分子篡夺领导权,企图复辟;或者待机而动,有时暗藏,有时公开,有时隐蔽活动,到一定阶段猖狂地复辟。当然这只是一小部分地区。由于全国人民政权的巩固,他们是挑不起大事来的。这一类阶级斗争是敌我矛盾性质的,要警惕,麻痹了就会上当。这种问题在全国任何方面都存在,但为数极少。我们要站在人民立场上随时警惕,特别是当我们有困难、有缺点错误时,更要注意。

思想斗争是长期任务。对于思想上作风上的问题,搞精神生产的文艺工作者要尤其注意。肃清旧的思想、作风是长期的。我们从旧社会来,受过旧学校的教育,今天的青年也会受家庭、社会旧思想残余的影响,所以旧思想旧作风在人们的脑子里或多或少地存在。思想是先驱,但真正肃清旧思想残余,要在新的基础全部完成之后才有可能。思想问题,世界观问题要慢慢改造,不能急,对于搞自然科学工作的人更是如此。拿医生来说,我曾遇到过这样的医生,技术是第一流的,是为社会主义服务的,但脑子里有上帝,这并不妨碍他为社会主义社会服务。我们家中有的老人也信鬼神,也还可以是一个社会主义社会的公民嘛!这是可以允许存在的,是无法勉强的。有些老人终其生而无法改变,带着迷信思想进棺材,但他活着的时候仍可以为社会主义服务。思想影响他的作风,由于信上帝就要去教堂,或到吃饭时要默祷一下,有些同志对此也看不惯,斗他一下,造成了社会上不必要的紧张和不安。当然,作为教师、作家,以此去教育青年,或搬上舞台影响青年,那就不好了。但要他们彻底改造,是不容易的。就以我们来说,是否对辩证唯物主义就认识得那么清楚了?思想上是否一点旧的东西都没有了?很难说,也要不断改造。前面所讲到的缺点与错误,还不都是唯心主义、形而上学所引起的?但你能说我们的党不是马克思主义的党,我们的干部不是马克思主义者吗?人总是有缺点的。我们的党是伟大的、光荣的、正确的党,但从我们个人来说,还是不成熟、不完全的马克思主义者。共产党人还会如此,如何能责备一般的非党朋友呢?自己虚心一些,帮助别人就好办一些。思想改造是长期的,从旧社会脱胎出来的新社会,哪能一下子就改造好?

习惯势力,是指从旧社会带来的封建阶级、资产阶级的习惯势力,从小做惯了,不以为是不对的。例如我们领导同志走到哪里,就把众人拦住,为我们让路,你要平等待人,就不行,有些人一定要把你搞得很特殊。我也不反对必要的警惕性,但本来是坐在一起的,为什么要隔开来?我看这就是一种习惯势力,是封建的,有时不自觉地就出来了。习惯势力在中国很多,如农村中急起来打人,就是一种习惯势力。这是从旧社会带来的,现在还有人用这种方法来对待群众。戏里还有打板子的。《十五贯》〔111〕很好,把打板子放到幕后去了。对于反革命分子,毛主席一贯强调反对用刑。反对革命尚且要教育,何况人民内部呢!但习惯势力常常是不自觉的,还要打人。最近知道有许多戏被禁演,也是按习惯势力去看问题,例如《秦香莲》,有人认为也不能演,真是岂有此理!批判陈士美杀妻灭子,他的行为是很恶毒的,为何不能演?这与离婚再娶有什么关系?这就是封建思想的影响。许多戏对男女关系问题总是骂女的,对男人总是原谅的。我认为不对。我们现在还没有把以男性为中心的社会习惯改掉嘛!不要以为干部就没有封建思想,这不是封建思想是什么?讲起道理,大家都同意,但一遇到具体事情,习惯势力就来了。不要以为我们这一代可以肃清,到二十一世纪也许能创造出新的习惯来,但在这一世纪,不要指望全部肃清旧的习惯势力。这里涉及阶级斗争问题。我们有时话说得不恰当,或开玩笑把话说错了,这是常有的。如果把这种情况都当作严重的政治问题斗争,人家就不能活了。所以,要区别何为政治问题,何为思想问题,何为习惯势力,不能不分清问题性质事事斗争。有的已形成习惯,要长期才能改变。新风气不树立起来,旧习惯势力去不了。总之,对阶级斗争要具体分析,不要把对反革命的警惕性和人民内部的思想改造混同起来。否则,毛主席所说的又有集中又有民主,又有纪律又有自由,又有统一意志、又有个人心情舒畅、生动活泼,那样一种政治局面,就不能形成。

思想改造是长期的任务。这里所说的改造,是从团结出发,并且在新的基础上达到新的团结的。不要怕听改造这两个字。改造,包括对非马克思主义思想和习惯势力的改造。一个共产党员如果以为自己改造完成了,不需要再改造了,他就不是好的共产党员。我常说,改造没个完,一直到死,那时也不能说改造够了,只是比现在好一点。改造是好事,不是坏事,是为了更便于团结,和反革命分子作斗争。除阶级敌人外,全国人民大团结。至于思想上是否有唯心主义、旧习惯势力,那是人民内部的问题,这些人都在我们团结之内。社会主义社会是从资本主义向共产主义过渡的时期,是个相当长的时期,有人却估计只要四年零八十天。从一九四九年算起就是十三年。我看几个十三年也不止,也许更长,现在不好“算命”。思想改造的目的,是为了使我们的事业发展得更好,把文艺工作做得更好,为了文艺工作者的团结,而不是“五子登科”,使大家很紧张。进行这项工作要和风细雨。毛主席讲:凡是思想改造学习,都要和风细雨,采取神仙会的形式漫谈。这次会议讨论的问题很多,从领导到文艺队伍,到“调整、巩固、充实、提高”的方针。这些问题不是一次会议能够完全解决的,大家回去还要去漫谈,不能性急,不能又出一个新框子,要长期做下去,要有耐心,才能心情愉快。

一方面要进行阶级斗争,一方面要巩固统一战线。党与民主党派、民主人士的团结合作,就是统一战线。不仅民主革命时期如此,社会主义革命和社会主义建设时期也如此。李维汉〔251〕同志在这方面已经发表了文章,在此不再多说。有一个时期好象觉得一九五六年关于知识分子的那些问题可以不讲了,不是的,那些原则仍然存在,只是三年来由于忙,这方面有所疏忽,讲得少了些。现在经过反右派,有了三年大跃进〔252〕的经验,彼此更了解了。三年大跃进有顺利的经验,也有困难的经验,要更团结,更有信心,统一战线应更扩大、更深入,而不是更缩小、更淡漠。这一点要肯定下来。要使得我们的经济、文化得到更好的发展,就要一方面在政治上提高对国内外阶级敌人的警惕性,一方面更加扩大和加强内部的团结。

三 为谁服务的问题

为谁服务是个政治标准,任何文艺都有个为谁服务的问题。毛主席指出文艺为工农兵服务,就是我们的政治标准。为工农兵服务,为劳动人民服务,为无产阶级专政制度下的人民大众服务,这只是文艺的政治标准。政治标准不等于一切,还有艺术标准,还有个如何服务的问题。服务是用文艺去服务,要通过文艺的形式。文艺的形式是多种多样的,不能框起来。文艺要为工农兵服务、为无产阶级政治服务,是肯定的,至于表现形式,是多样的。文艺形式至少象周扬〔253〕同志报告中说的,有文学、戏剧、音乐、美术、舞蹈、电影、曲艺、摄影等方面,细分还不止,如戏曲中就有很多剧种。文艺为政治服务,要通过形象,通过形象思维才能把思想表现出来。无论是音乐语言,还是绘画语言,都要通过形象、典型来表现,没有了形象,文艺本身就不存在,本身都没有了,还谈什么为政治服务呢?标语口号不是文艺。象我今天的讲话,只能叫漫谈,就不能叫艺术。既然如此,文艺要好好为人民服务,就要通过实践,到群众中去考验。你这个形象是否站得住,是否为人民所喜闻乐见,不是领导批准可以算数的。艺术作品的好坏,要由群众回答,而不是由领导回答;可是目前领导决定多于群众批准。当然,如果有政治错误,反社会主义,我们要发言,不能任其自由泛滥,但这终究是少数。我看到四川一个材料。文化部一位副部长到四川说:川剧落后。得罪了四川人。当时一位同志回答:落后不落后要由四川七千万人去回答、去决定。我看这位同志很勇敢,回答得好!人民喜闻乐见,你不喜欢,你算老几?上海人喜爱评弹、淮剧、越剧,要你北京人去批准干什么?领导人可以有喜好,有人爱看戏,有人爱看画,有人爱古董,这有什么关系?我们看了戏说好,不一定就好,我们的话靠不住,各人有各人的爱好,怎能作为标准?艺术是要人民批准的。只要人民爱好,就有价值;不是反党、反社会主义的,就许可存在,没有权力去禁演。艺术家要面对人民,而不是只面对领导。这是不是主张反对领导呢?不是的。领导在政治上有权提意见,要政治挂帅,但政治挂帅主要是看它是香花还是毒草,是否反党反社会主义,政治上的敏锐要放在这个方面。至于艺术方面,我们懂得很少。

我们懂得少,发言权很少,不要过多干涉。在座的同志都是做领导的人,希望你们干涉少些,当然不是要你们不负责任。第一,要负责任;第二,要干涉少些。负责任主要指政治上,不要放任毒草,放任修正主义。但是一定要区分清楚,不要把什么都说成是修正主义。有人问我:文艺的教育作用和娱乐作用是不是统一的?是辩证的统一。群众看戏、看电影是要从中得到娱乐和休息,你通过典型化的形象表演,教育寓于其中,寓于娱乐之中。当然要多样化,不能老是打仗。朱德同志说,我打了一辈子仗,想看点不打仗的片子。如果天天让人家看打仗的片子,人家就不爱看,就要去看香港片,这只能说明电影局的工作没做好;反之,一个打仗的片子也没有,让青年丧失战斗性,也不好。现代片多少,历史片多少,要大体上有个比例。至于题材,完全可以允许作者自由选择。古代没有社会主义,但有中国人民优良的传统,人民创造了许多他们理想的人物,如武松、穆桂英等,还有不少神话,都可以写。我们要有个比例,这种比例在不同地区、不同剧种中也要有所不同。有的剧种只宜于演抒情戏,打仗戏只能偶尔演之,如越剧团都是女同志,演《红楼梦》很舒服,演《追鱼》也还可以,演武打戏如《泗州城》就有困难。越剧是嵊县“的笃班”〔254〕发展而来的,后来又吸收了绍兴大班〔255〕的一些东西。原来有男演员或全是男演员,后来都变成女演员演,现在既允许有男女同台的,也允许全是女演员的。由于剧种不同,要因地因时制宜,在安排剧目时必须考虑群众的需要。又如电影,农村、工厂宜于看什么片子,要不同对待,但总要对生活有所调剂,一方面要歌颂劳动光荣,一方面也必须有些抒情的、轻松的东西。对于青年,要告诉他们革命之甘苦,社会主义来之不易,表现革命斗争艰难困苦的戏要多演,使他们不要忘本。创作题材要有个大体的比例,文化部在这方面要多做些工作,但决不能强迫命令和干涉过多。听上海的同志讲,有几个作者对党委领导工作根本不熟悉,硬要他去写党委领导,结果天天对他讲党委挂帅如何重要,还是写不出来,不如让他写写别的,发挥所长。本来是各显所长,百花齐放,结果成了一花独放,拿一个政治框子,把大家束缚住了。陈云同志关于曲艺的意见〔256〕是有道理的。他身体很弱,很疲劳,需要另一种生活环境来休息,听听评弹,以便为党做更多的工作。评弹也有教育作用,艺术上很有特点,一个人表演很多角色,做多方面的表演。我过去对评弹不懂,现在觉得比北方大鼓还好,当然各有千秋。但我仍愿意听北方曲艺,因为听评弹的苏州口音比较费力,所以不如陈云同志热心。不能一定要我和陈云同志一样,也不能因而说我不赞成评弹,各取所需嘛!观众看戏看电影就是各取所需的。又如,我愿看散文、短篇,看长篇小说就没有时间。有时想看看不费脑筋的戏剧和电影,借以休息,但是不行,还是要想,要提意见,其实这是多余的,今后要解放一下,反正专家很多嘛!我们看了戏之后,受不受感染呢?也是受感染的。《达吉和她的父亲》,小说和电影我都看了,各有所长。小说比较粗犷,表现了彝族人民的性格,但粗糙些。电影加工较小说好,但到后来该哭时不敢哭,受了束缚,大概是怕“温情主义”。我们无产阶级有无产阶级的人性,为什么有顾虑?是有一种压力。把“人性论”、“人类之爱”、“人道主义”、“功利主义”都弄乱了。这些问题,毛主席早在延安文艺座谈会上时就回答了。我们不一般地反对功利主义,我们讲无产阶级的功利主义、人性、友爱和人道主义。现在的搞法,不是从无产阶级的立场和阶级观点来看问题,而是用唯心主义观点来看问题。以政治代替文艺,就没有文艺了,还有什么看头呢!

还有,搞文化工作要研究经济基础。如周扬同志所说,思想是先行,但文化建设高潮要在经济高潮之后。文化事业的发展不能漫无边际。文化事业、大专学校太多,超过经济发展的水平,就会使基础、使生产受到影响。说是为生产服务,结果适得其反,成为生产为文化服务,为文化而文化,最后消灭了文化。普及与提高,普及就要开展群众业余活动,在此基础上提高。现在我们做过头了,文化事业搞多了,队伍搞大了,占用了劳力,影响了生产,所以要缩短战线,贯彻“调整、巩固、充实、提高”八字方针,才能更好地为社会主义建设服务,为工农兵服务,为无产阶级的政治服务。

四 文艺规律问题

文艺同工农业生产一样,有它客观的发展规律。当然,文艺是精神生产,它是头脑的产物,更带复杂性,更难掌握。周扬同志讲,文艺的特点是通过形象思维反映生活。毛主席说,文艺作品中反映出来的生活应该比普通的实际生活更高,更强烈,更有集中性,更典型,更理想,因此就更带普遍性。革命的文艺,应当根据实际生活创造出各种各样的人物来,帮助群众推动历史的前进,实现为政治服务的目的。我觉得现在在这方面存在如下一些问题需要解决:

1.数量和质量的问题。几年来,文艺作品在数量方面搞得很多,质量不高。文艺的队伍搞得很大,水平不高。同一个剧目,到处学着上演,路子很窄。同一个题材,各地都写,大同小异。用同样的语言歌颂同一事物,把质量降低了。虽然目前文艺的数量离普及还有距离,但是当前主要的不是继续发展数量,而是要提高质量。提高质量是一件细致的工作,不能要求太急。成功的作品不是人人都能创造出来的,也不是天天都有的。优秀的作家、优秀的作品在封建社会、资本主义社会是并不很多的。当然我们要超过他们;但是也不能“人人做诗,人人画画”,每县出一个郭沫若。这种口号是不对的。数量和质量是辩证地发展的,数量总是超过质量,好作品总是少数。但是现在质量高的东西太少了。文艺要求思想性和艺术性辩证的结合,创作好作品需要更多的准备。《社会主义好》是一首好歌,但是歌词太简单了。在大革命时有一首歌,名叫《打倒列强》,群众很爱唱。一共只有八句词:“打倒列强,打倒列强,除军阀,除军阀;国民革命成功,国民革命成功,齐欢唱,齐欢唱。”更简单,等于标语口号。但是那是一九二四年写的。现在过了三十七年,还是那么简单,就不好了。《社会主义好》的作词者不要紧张,我在这里不是怪作家;这是由于领导要求太急,所以只能是急就章。现在《洪湖水,浪打浪》更受群众欢迎,因为它既有革命的内容,又抒情,质量较高。这就是群众的批评,群众的选择。现在应当允许作家的写作时间多一点,不要催得太急。剧团也不要演那么多场,使演员能够劳逸结合。

2.原料和加工的问题。普通的实际生活总是要经过加工才能成为艺术作品。作家掌握了原料以后,必须经过加工,才能写成作品。现在应当更加着重加工这一方面,因此要多给点时间。《杨门女将》这出戏如果能由梅兰芳〔257〕同志加工,可能更好些。

3.思想和业务的问题。思想很重要,是指导,必须加强思想学习。你们是“灵魂工程师”,思想总要高些。思想水平不提高,作品不可能写好。但是除了提高思想水平以外,还要精通业务,否则思想如何表现出来呢?只懂政治,不精通业务,写出来的东西势必是标语口号,不能感人。只懂政治不精通业务,可以去做别的工作,例如做宣传工作,不能成为艺术家。当然,宣传工作也要求有鲜明性,生动性。要精通业务,没有基本训练是不行的。作为一个艺术家,要有经验和才能,必须有很好的修养,其中包括训练,否则就不能成为一个艺术家,也不能成为评论家。我今天的讲话就只能是漫谈,而不能算作评论。因此,一定要积累经验和才能,要不断实践,在实践中接受群众的考验。我们的艺术团体到国外去,人家对我们的艺术家受到国家的重视和培养非常羡慕。我国的艺术家有广阔的发展天地,这是社会主义制度的优越性。我们受人赞美,就更要提高,更往上发展,所以要重视经验和才能,要重视技巧。现在不敢谈经验和才能,不敢谈技巧,有人一谈技巧,就被说成是资产阶级思想,这显然是错误的。

与此相联,红与专,论与史,文与道,都不能偏废。这些问题周扬同志在高等学校文科教材编选计划会议上都讲过了。现在“白专道路”这个口号很流行。这个口号不是我们提的。

聂荣臻〔258〕同志一定要我再讲讲这个问题。什么叫做“白”呢?一个人只要在社会主义土壤上专心致志为社会主义服务,虽然政治上学习得少,不能算“白”。只有打起白旗,反对社会主义,才是“白”。例如有个外科医生,开刀开得很好,治好了很多病人,只是政治上不大开展,因此就说他是“白专道路”,岂不是荒谬?再如有一个人专心致志为社会主义服务,政治上懂得少一些,但是两年把导弹搞出来了,对国家很有贡献;另外一个人,天天谈政治,搞了五年也没有把导弹搞出来。你投票赞成哪一个人?我投票赞成第一个人。第二个人只好请他去当政治教员,他不能在导弹部门工作,他只能在导弹部门“捣蛋”。毛主席说过:我们并不一般地反对功利主义,我们要讲无产阶级的功利主义。这两个人中的第一个人对我们是有利的,对社会主义事业在全世界的胜利是有利的。不讲革命的功利主义,空谈政治,不好。当然,学习政治我赞成,但是要精通业务,不能占用钻研业务的时间。

4.批评和讨论的问题。文艺作品要容许别人批评,既有发表作品的自由,也要有批评的自由;同样,既有批评的自由,就要有讨论的自由。不论哪一方面都不能独霸文坛。我们提倡批评,也提倡百家争鸣、自由讨论。只要是在社会主义大框框中争论,你说好,我说坏,都可以。光允许批评,不允许讨论,人家就会说,还是批评家好当。

五 遗产与创造问题

毛主席说,我们应当厚今薄古。我们相信一代胜过一代。历史的发展总是今胜于古,但是古代总有一些好的东西值得继承。所以毛主席要我们继承优秀的文化遗产,批判地吸收其中的一切有益的东西,“弃其糟粕,取其精华”,使它发扬光大,一代胜过一代,到了共产主义社会就更加发扬光大。

在中外关系上,我们是中国人,总要以自己的东西为主,但是也不能排外,闭关自守,如果那样就是复古主义了。外国好的东西也要加以吸收,使它溶化在我们民族的文化里。我们的民族从来是善于吸收其他民族的优秀文化的。我们吸收了印度文化和朝鲜、越南、蒙古、日本的文化,也吸收了西欧的文化。但要“以我为主”,首先要把我们民族的东西搞通。学习外国的东西要加以溶化,不要硬加。《小刀会》是一个很好的舞剧,在上海演出时,其中的《弓舞》没有女的站在男的身上那些芭蕾动作,在北京演出时加上了。事实上在太平天国时代〔259〕怎么能有这种动作呢?它同太平天国的历史背景不符合。《宝莲灯》也是如此。中国古代神话怎么能够那样演呢?也许他们考据出什么东西作为根据。一些器乐也是如此,总要来点西方情调,听来不和谐。在这方面,也许我有些保守。我是主张先把本民族的东西搞通,吸收外国的东西要加以溶化,要使它们不知不觉地和我们民族的文化溶合在一起。这种溶合是化学的化合,不是物理的混合,不是把中国的东西和外国的东西焊接在一起。

不论学习古代的东西还是学习外国的东西,都是为了今天的创造,都要把它们溶化在我们的创作中。文艺总要有独创精神。也许《小刀会》中的《弓舞》,让女的蹬在男的腿上是一种创造,这可以争鸣。我认为把古代的、外国的东西吸收溶化在创作里,应该注意时代背景。写古代题材,女人不可能站在男人身上,写现代生活就不同些。据说安徽的《花鼓灯》是女人站在男人的肩膀上。但是我记得年轻时看群众跳这种舞是男扮女装的,从前根本不允许女的站在男的肩上。当然你们也可以驳我。我讲这一部分就是准备引起讨论的。

六 领导问题

三年来,我们取得了很大的成绩。这是主要的。缺点和错误是部分的。如何改正这些缺点和错误?中心问题在于领导,在于教育,在于深入群众,总起来一句话,要实行调查研究。毛主席的工作方法论就是调查研究。做调查研究的是领导者,领导者要有自我批评精神,不是层层对下批评。

最近听周扬同志说的一句话很顺耳。他说,统一战线工作不仅统战部要做,宣传部也应当做。这话很对。本来宣传部应当广为招徕,门户洞开,但是现在党外人士不到中宣部来,可见门户不是那么洞开。统战工作不只是统战部的工作,而是全党的工作,不仅文化部、宣传部要做,组织部也要做,许多部门都要做。毛主席每年都要找章行老〔260〕谈谈教育工作。我也还要对溥仪〔218〕做工作。既然把他放出来了,总要让他做点工作,发挥他的作用。改造末代皇帝,这也是社会主义制度的优越性嘛!否则为什么放他出来呢?

缺点和错误的改正要从领导做起,首先领导上要自我批评,要多负一些责任,问题总是同上面有关系的。希望你们回去也这样做。文艺团体的领导也要自我批评。这样就可以解除包袱,框框就只有大的,没有小的了,辫子就不会乱抓了,根子就不会乱挖了,帽子就不会乱戴了,棍子就不会乱打了。就可以使广大的文艺工作者心情舒畅,意气风发,使社会主义文艺更加繁荣。

光有自我批评还不行,还要深入群众。只有深入群众,才能知道自己的意见对不对。怎么办?要实行调查研究。我还要说一句,我们要进行自我批评,但是你们也不能封锁消息。不能认为这是我的工作,你不能管——“卧榻之侧,岂容他人酣睡”〔261〕,这样就无法合作了!任何问题公之于众总是有好处的。这样,可以得到大家的帮助,有什么不好呢?当然,调查研究不能成灾,事前应当有准备,应当写好提纲;还要自带粮食,注意节约。调查研究要实事求是,不能乱搞。别人的成绩,应当加以肯定。对问题要做出恰当的估计。各个地区、各个部门的情况会有所不同,有的地方是整个领导错误,有的地方是个别错误,有的地方则很好,要实事求是,分别对待。

这一切是为了什么呢?是为了教育干部。毛主席说,十一年来忙于建设,对干部的教育注意不够。我今天讲这么多话,也为的是把这个问题讲清楚。要造成一种风气,使大家敢于讲话。只要是对社会主义有利,即使思想不一致,也要说出来。知无不言,言无不尽;言者无罪,闻者足戒;有则改之,无则加勉。这样,我们的干部就可以得到教育,健康的风气才能造成,社会主义的文艺才能得到更好的发展,活动的天地就可以非常广阔。

七 话剧问题

最后,我还想讲一讲话剧问题。

话剧几年来有进步,但是比起其他方面来要弱一点。什么道理呢?是由于不承认基本规律,不搞基本训练,似乎演话剧很容易,只要会说话就行。话剧是一种综合艺术,它包括剧本、表演、布景、灯光、道具等等。但是其中最重要的是语言的艺术化,话剧要通过语言打动人。话剧界的同志要我向毛主席做工作,请毛主席看话剧。我说,你们什么时候把话剧演得不象普通人说话,毛主席就会来看了。

话剧演员不仅要会说话,而且要会唱、会做,因此基本训练的内容是很多的。但是现在不大讲基本训练,忽视话剧艺术的基本规律。话剧团体的演出任务很重,一年将近三百六十五场,弄得大家很累,没有时间钻研艺术,使话剧不能被人接受。演话剧要有别的修养,琴棋书画都要会一点,要成为通才。演《雷雨》,不熟悉封建社会的生活,演成资本主义社会的家庭,就不象了。

任何艺术不掌握规律,不进行基本训练,不掌握技术,是不行的。我看艺术应当苦练,这虽是从话剧讲起,但应适用于各个艺术部门。要进行基本训练,就要有时间。文化部在这方面应当有一个规划,定出一个恰当的比例。

解放以来,我们培养出很多人才,但是从发展观点来看,还是不够的。杨秋玲在香港被称为“小梅兰芳”,但是实际上她离梅兰芳还远得很。如果不给她时间加强训练,过几年也会垮的。我们培养人才不能起一个垮一个。国家培养人才也要讲“成本”,当然,不是说要搞经济核算,但是要注意这个问题。

要掌握基本规律,加强基本训练。这是第一点。

第二,演话剧要目中无人,心中有人。又无人,又有人。演员在舞台上看到台下千百双眼睛,就有些战战兢兢,当然演不好戏。因此要“目中无人”。现在剧场观众席是黑的,是为了让演员看不见观众。但是往往又产生另一种偏向:演员的心里也没有观众了。演员在台上背着观众说话,我们竖着耳朵都听不见。他们根本忘了话是要说给观众听的,戏是要给观众看的。所以演员要心中有人。

第三,对舞台,既要藐视,又要重视。所谓藐视,就是要敢于什么角色都演,好人、坏人都演。年纪大的人演小孩也可以。《以革命的名义》中演瓦夏和别佳这两个孩子的女同志年纪都很大了,演得很好。但是光藐视不行,还要重视。舞台虽小,下面却有成千成百的人看着你,稍有疏忽,观众都会看出来的。所以要象毛主席所说的那样,把战略上藐视和战术上重视统一起来。

第四,演员自己要做到客观逼真,主观认真。象斯坦尼斯拉夫斯基〔262〕所说的那样完全变成角色,是不可能的。只能做到逼真。但是主观上要认真地演,演武松要象武松,演曹操要象曹操。应当是又象又不象,二者辩证地统一起来。

总之,各种事物都有它的客观规律,艺术也一样。要认真地加以研究,加以摸索,许多经验要认真加以总结。希望在这次会后,大家都来研究规律,但也不要又搞出许多框框来。

我今天所说的这些话不一定对,我是树个“的”,让大家来射,树个活靶子,让大家来攻攻。

 

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One thought on “Speech at the Forum on Literature and Art and the Conference on Feature Film Production

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